--- Log opened vie feb 25 00:00:38 2022 --- Log closed vie feb 25 05:55:38 2022 --- Log opened vie feb 25 05:55:48 2022 05:55 -!- Irssi: #friendica: Total of 11 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 11 normal] 05:56 -!- Irssi: Join to #friendica was synced in 18 secs 08:24 < fikabot> 💬 > <@Mecallie:matrix.org> I think this is what you want: 08:24 < fikabot> 💬 > ``` 08:24 < fikabot> 💬 > [Thu Feb 24 13:20:03.185525 2022] [php:warn] [pid 113516] [client 127.0.0.1:37886] PHP Warning: file_put_contents(/home/friendica/16/2a/index.html): Failed to open stream: Permission denied in /var/www/html/friendica/src/Core/Storage/Type/Filesystem.php on line 100, referer: https://domain.name/profile/admin 08:24 < fikabot> 💬 > [Thu Feb 24 13:20:03.185569 2022] [php:warn] [pid 113516] [client 127.0.0.1:37886] PHP Warning: chmod(): Permission denied in /var/www/html/friendica/src/Core/Storage/Type/Filesystem.php on line 102, referer: https://domain.name/profile/admin 08:24 < fikabot> 💬 > [Thu Feb 24 13:20:03.185591 2022] [php:warn] [pid 113516] [client 127.0.0.1:37886] PHP Warning: chmod(): Operation not permitted in /var/www/html/friendica/src/Core/Storage/Type/Filesystem.php on line 103, referer: https://domain.name/profile/admin 08:24 < fikabot> 💬 > [Thu Feb 24 13:20:03.185639 2022] [php:warn] [pid 113516] [client 127.0.0.1:37886] PHP Warning: file_put_contents(/home/friendica/16/2a/59f3344429ef8ac8d73c9c6d6eb05ce75c5562aa3733a7621e9c7a9963b3): Failed to open stream: Permission denied in /var/www/html/friendica/src/Core/Storage/Type/Filesystem.php on line 147, referer: https://domain.name/profile/admin 08:25 < fikabot> 💬 > ``` 08:25 < fikabot> 💬 > Note: I did manage to upload the 6.5MB video at some time. No idea why... 08:25 < fikabot> 💬 08:25 < fikabot> 💬 Yes, you should fix these permission errors, but I think it should still work.. 08:25 < fikabot> 💬 Could yuo perhaps try this? `I disable module LoadModule reqtimeout_module modules / mod_reqtimeout.so in apache httpd.conf` http://forum.centos-webpanel.com/index.php?topic=6758.msg25890#msg25890 09:01 < fikabot> 💬 Also try increasing `FcgidMaxRequestLen` for Apache2 and `max_input_time` in PHP ini 09:12 < fikabot> 💬 > <@bkil:grin.hu> Also try increasing `FcgidMaxRequestLen` for Apache2 and `max_input_time` in PHP ini 09:12 < fikabot> 💬 09:12 < fikabot> 💬 Will try (and the above) and get back. Thank you! 11:22 < fikabot> 💬 > <@bkil:grin.hu> Just paste the profile URL of the test account when it's created and volunteers can follow it to test. 11:22 < fikabot> 💬 11:22 < fikabot> 💬 https://social.lightsout.games/profile/test Still waking up here, but should be ready for heavier testing later. 13:35 < fikabot> 💬 > <@nolan:thewordnerd.info> https://social.lightsout.games/profile/test Still waking up here, but should be ready for heavier testing later. 13:35 < fikabot> 💬 13:35 < fikabot> 💬 Could you please post something? 13:36 < fikabot> 💬 Just did, should be sent in 5 minutes. 13:37 < fikabot> 💬 OK, interesting, you show up as a fan of the test account. 13:39 < fikabot> 💬 Not going to do this yet, but what happens if I delete and recreate the subaccount with the follower issues? Will I be blocked from using the same name? 13:41 < fikabot> 💬 Saw and liked your test account post. 13:42 < fikabot> 💬 Awesome, and you both show up as fans. So it's just the one account that's bugged. 13:43 < fikabot> 💬 So if I can just nuke and recreate it with the same name, that might be the best course of action. 13:46 < fikabot> 💬 I have the lurking suspicion that something would probably block reusing main. Not sure if there's something I can delete directly from the database if that's the case. 13:46 < fikabot> 💬 Yeah, I think after you delete nodes will have problems recognizing the new one. 13:47 < fikabot> 💬 Then again, nodes aren't recognizing this one. 13:47 < fikabot> 💬 Probably can use the same formal name but would have to call it main1@yoursite.com 13:47 < fikabot> 💬 Or something to that effect 13:47 < fikabot> 💬 yoursite.com being the lights out one obviously. 13:49 < fikabot> 💬 Yeah. I'll give it some thought. I appreciate all the help but am honestly not thrilled by this whole "fails to communicate and fails to flag that" issue. And we're not even sure why I can't post to the forum from a completely separate site, either. 13:50 < fikabot> 💬 It makes me wonder how many folks are trying to get help and just giving up because their messages don't get delivered and no one knows. It took a *lot* for us to get to finding that 202 in my logs for instance, then we discovered that 202 doesn't actually mean person A communicated successfully with person B even though it's a success code. 13:51 < fikabot> 💬 That said, it is a pretty large scope project to communicate as thoroughly across social networks as Friendica does. I acknowledge that and hope there's a path to getting these types of issues sorted more universally. 13:53 < fikabot> 💬 > <@nolan:thewordnerd.info> Yeah. I'll give it some thought. I appreciate all the help but am honestly not thrilled by this whole "fails to communicate and fails to flag that" issue. And we're not even sure why I can't post to the forum from a completely separate site, either. 13:53 < fikabot> 💬 13:53 < fikabot> 💬 Posting to the forum should now work with this test account. 13:53 < fikabot> 💬 Posting to the forum is just another form of publishing posts and automatically boosting them, hence the exact same issue caused that to fail. Maybe broadcasting your list of followers as well. 13:53 < fikabot> 💬 I'll open a github issue about improving the message in the log to produce an ERROR, though. 13:54 < fikabot> 💬 Sure, but if I'm using software that fails to communicate and is silent about that, I don't want to perpetually wonder if I'm using the wrong account, if something broke in the meantime, etc. 13:54 < fikabot> 💬 And no, I failed to post to the forum from nolan@venera.social. That's my point--two separate sites, two separate failures. 13:54 < fikabot> 💬 By the way, this XMPP chat (Matrix room, IRC channel) is listed on the main site as a point of contact for those who can't post on the forum just for this reason as a backup. 13:55 < fikabot> 💬 > <@nolan:thewordnerd.info> And no, I failed to post to the forum from nolan@venera.social. That's my point--two separate sites, two separate failures. 13:55 < fikabot> 💬 13:56 < fikabot> 💬 Are you sure that venera.social is not blocked due to abuse? 13:56 < fikabot> 💬 Right, but again, why can't I post? I don't think that should just be in the log, either. The only way I knew that my posts from a site I don't control weren't getting through, was that I finally asked here. 13:57 < fikabot> 💬 > <@bkil:grin.hu> Are you sure that venera.social is not blocked due to abuse? 13:57 < fikabot> 💬 13:57 < fikabot> 💬 Probably not, given the owner of both nodes claims to be the same person. 13:57 < fikabot> 💬 And if it *was*, how would I know that? 13:59 < fikabot> 💬 I was kind of hoping to promote my commercial indie game work using Friendica, and I could imagine some seeing that as abusive, or something they'd want to block. And I guess that'd be fine, but now I have to add blocking *and* federation issues to the list of reasons posts from my instance might not go through. Sorry, I've sunk hours and hours into debugging this, searching on m 13:59 < fikabot> 💬 y own, etc. It's not just been happening when I'm active here. 14:02 < fikabot> 💬 There is a heaploads of abuse on matrix as well 14:02 < fikabot> 💬 Anyway, sorry, I'm not trying to make anyone feel like they have to defend Friendica or anything. I'm just super frustrated. I'd like to debug this further, but the thought of trawling through 3-4 different logs right now to figure out what might be up is exhausting to think about. 🙂 14:02 < fikabot> 💬 And it is a real pain to deal with that, but many of you don't see this. 14:03 < fikabot> 💬 Yeah, self-hosting can be a slog, because oftentimes the apps you use are all managed by and used by volunteers, so sometimes the only way to solve something is struggling with it a bit. If you were willing, you can try to share your knowledge after getting your site working to the troubleshooting page on GH, or through some other means. People sharing what works for them volunt 14:03 < fikabot> 💬 arily more often is probably the only realistic way to address it. 14:03 < fikabot> 💬 TL;DR: Abuse and blocking happens because certain instances are unprotected and little boys who are bored keep on posting 100 pictures a minute about images of nude children, abusing animals, tanks, guns, mocking minorities and whatever they feel would annoy the highest amount of people. 14:04 < fikabot> 💬 You should not worry that anyone would want to block you for promoting your FOSS projects. It's very much welcome, see the kind of content that gets put out on fosstodon.org 14:05 < fikabot> 💬 https://fosstodon.org/public 14:05 < fikabot> 💬 > <@bkil:grin.hu> TL;DR: Abuse and blocking happens because certain instances are unprotected and little boys who are bored keep on posting 100 pictures a minute about images of nude children, abusing animals, tanks, guns, mocking minorities and whatever they feel would annoy the highest amount of people. 14:05 < fikabot> 💬 14:05 < fikabot> 💬 OK. To be clear, I'm not trying to take us down that path. All that's relevant here is that, in my recent by-proxy forum post when I wondered if venera.social was blocked for abuse, someone chimed in that he ran both venera.social and forum.friendi.ca. So I don't think venera.social is blocked. 14:06 < fikabot> 💬 On the fediverse, if you aren't interested in the promotion of somebody, you just not follow that person. If you operate a forum just for this purpose and people voluntarily join that forum, nobody could say anything about it. 14:07 < fikabot> 💬 I just assumed that because Clay Ferguson also had an issue with venera.social, the setup on that instance might have an issue. It might be worth it to contact its operator in this case. 14:07 < fikabot> 💬 Ah, sorry, I misunderstood. Thought we were about to have another discussion about the necessity of moderation. I think you wanted to reassure me that my promotion wouldn't be abusive. If that's the case, sorry for misreading. 14:08 < fikabot> 💬 I'm sure your promotion would not be abusive and you have nothing to worry about. 14:31 < fikabot> 💬 While I was trying to look into the code again before opening an issue, on second thought, perhaps the ActivityPub transmission endpoint might always return HTTP 202.i.e., it can not understand in a deeper level whether our messages was fully successful or not, whether some or all of the recipients were blocking us. The Diaspora one does return this on failure, however. So we're 14:32 < fikabot> 💬 actually back to requiring the logs on the other side to confirm what exactly caused a failure with your other account. If people who run a Friendica instance themselves could follow you to check in their log that could be great help. 14:32 < fikabot> 💬 My first hunch about the root cause being a private key change is still possible, though. 14:33 < fikabot> 💬 Because I think people rarely use subaccounts, it might actually be a corner case related to that as well. 14:34 < fikabot> 💬 JB Carroll: if you are running your own instance, could you perhaps look into it for us? 🙏 14:37 < fikabot> 💬 What is the difference between updating a contact and refreshing its data? 14:39 < fikabot> 💬 Because I unfollowed lights out games from my personal account on venera.social, I've confirmed that I don't show up as a follower there, but no amount of updates/refreshes changes that venera.social claims lights out games is still sharing with me. 14:43 < fikabot> 💬 Actually, I think I'm just going to burn the thing down entirely and try again in a few months. Maybe that'll break something, but things are broken now so I'm not sure it can get broken worse. 14:44 < fikabot> 💬 Sorry, I just don't have the bandwidth. Thanks so much for all the help. I'll still certainly use Friendica from my personal hosted account. But this has been challenging to self-host, and I'm not exactly new at this. 🙂 14:48 < fikabot> 💬 BTW, I did make another forum post from nolan@venera.social just to see if that's working at least. Would appreciate knowing if anyone receives that. 15:05 < fikabot> 💬 According to their support page, the libranet.de crew is operating it https://venera.social/friendica This is the support forum the suggest: https://libranet.de/~support 15:07 < fikabot> 💬 Incidentally, they have just upgraded to the new Friendica release a week ago and also experienced a database glitch. Not sure whether this is related https://mastodon.social/@libranet 15:08 < fikabot> 💬 I can not pull in the post that you made in the helper forum, neither does it show up on your wall. Are you sure you made the post public before mentioning the forum name and posting? 15:10 < fikabot> 💬 This was the post on the forum wall https://venera.social/display/85a863ed-1162-1913-8fdd-dc8810982326 that returns 404 for me. 15:10 < fikabot> 💬 If you look into how the post of JB Carroll appears, it also gets listed in the user wall as well: https://friendica.jb-net.us/profile/jbcarroll 15:11 < fikabot> 💬 Please see here in the documentation how you should be posting to a forum nolan https://github.com/friendica/friendica/blob/develop/doc/Forums.md#user-content-posting-to-community-forums 15:14 < fikabot> 💬 Wait, I'm pretty sure those docs said you could make the post private or public. 15:14 < fikabot> 💬 FWIW, I did read those docs before posting. Read them with less right out of the source directory. 15:18 < fikabot> 💬 > <@bkil:grin.hu> JB Carroll: if you are running your own instance, could you perhaps look into it for us? 🙏 15:18 < fikabot> 💬 15:18 < fikabot> 💬 Yeah I am. I can try to look into it later tonight. 15:21 < fikabot> 💬 Also, is there anything I should grep for specifically? 15:21 < fikabot> 💬 I have it on notice level not debug, with log rotation 15:22 < fikabot> 💬 Is your log timezone zulu? JB Carroll 15:23 < fikabot> 💬 Since when have you been following the main account? 15:24 < fikabot> 💬 nolan: So did you now switch off your Friendica instance completely? 15:24 < fikabot> 💬 Yeah, uninstalled. Sorry. 15:24 < fikabot> 💬 No problem, we'll look into what we have then. 15:25 < fikabot> 💬 I mean, just so we're clear, we're talking about two separate instances. The recent forum post came from venera.social, that's what I'm trying to debug now. 15:25 < fikabot> 💬 JB Carroll: I'd look for `grep -E "^2022-02-22T16:(30:0[0-5]|29)"` 15:26 < fikabot> 💬 nolan: We don't need to debug the last post, just make another post by making it public and mentioning the forum with an exclamation mark and that will work. 15:26 < fikabot> 💬 We are trying to investigate the problem from yesterday. 15:26 < fikabot> 💬 I might try bringing back social.lightsout.games with Friendica later. If that breaks things due to keys, I'd submit that Friendica should offer some sort of refresh/trust new key UI. I remember Synapse auto-generated one key way back in 2015, and that had to go away due to server reinstalls. 15:26 < fikabot> 💬 The forum post you just made will never show up. 15:28 < fikabot> 💬 > <@nolan:thewordnerd.info> I might try bringing back social.lightsout.games with Friendica later. If that breaks things due to keys, I'd submit that Friendica should offer some sort of refresh/trust new key UI. I remember Synapse auto-generated one key way back in 2015, and that had to go away due to server reinstalls. 15:28 < fikabot> 💬 15:28 < fikabot> 💬 Feneas has just started switching off its infrastructure and they had also made a backup of their keys if they ever wanted to reinstall Synapse on the same domain. I don't think it would support it in any other way. 15:28 < fikabot> 💬 > <@bkil:grin.hu> nolan: We don't need to debug the last post, just make another post by making it public and mentioning the forum with an exclamation mark and that will work. 15:28 < fikabot> 💬 15:28 < fikabot> 💬 Wait, but why? From the linked docs: 15:28 < fikabot> 💬 >Posting privately to a public forum, will result in your posting being displayed on the forum wall, but not on yours.Isn't that what I want? The post is displayed on the forum wall, which then redistributes it. 15:29 < fikabot> 💬 I mean, sure, it would be cool if there was a fancy web of trust way of replacing keys, but I don't think anyone has that at present (nor is there a really strong use case for it) 15:29 < fikabot> 💬 I'm just suggesting a "Key mismatch. The key for this instance/contact has changed. Trust? Yes/no" 15:29 < fikabot> 💬 No fancy web of trust needed for that. 15:31 < fikabot> 💬 To make that post, I literally just clicked the forum link, then the New post link from there. The post was populated with the tag, I filled it out and submitted it. That's the workflow Friendica funnels you through. If that's not posting to the forum, that seems broken. 15:31 < fikabot> 💬 But then the operators of the hundreds of instances around the whole world would need to click this manually. Imagine if such a message came up day by day as servers came & went. How would you realistically verify the changed signature? The principal of `trust on first use` means that you should distrust any further alterations on principle. 15:33 < fikabot> 💬 Gotcha. All righty. 15:33 < fikabot> 💬 > <@nolan:thewordnerd.info> To make that post, I literally just clicked the forum link, then the New post link from there. The post was populated with the tag, I filled it out and submitted it. That's the workflow Friendica funnels you through. If that's not posting to the forum, that seems broken. 15:33 < fikabot> 💬 15:33 < fikabot> 💬 It may be working, but I just joined the forum afterwards to see your post and I couldn't pull in the post because it is private. That kind of agrees with the privacy models of forums (i.e.., don't change access control membership after sending a post), but it is not very inclusive in this specific use case. 15:33 < fikabot> 💬 So it doesn't *redistribute* the posts, then? That should probably be clarified in the docs. 15:34 < fikabot> 💬 I see we already have an issue about how inconvenient this is, regardless of how secure it is https://github.com/friendica/friendica/issues/11182 15:35 < fikabot> 💬 Also, my default post permissions are public. So if it *became* private, it wasn't because I switched it to that. 15:35 < fikabot> 💬 Imagine it as a mailing list. She who was registered in the moment when the post was submitted will get forwarded the message (kind of the main point of pub-sub, publish subscribe) Everyone else gets left out. Friendica can then pull in an earlier post to reply by boosting or copy & pasting the URI in the search bar by hand, but that only works if the post is public, i.e., publis 15:35 < fikabot> 💬 hed on your timeline.. 15:36 < fikabot> 💬 By the way, I think it could still work if it was unlisted, but public. 15:38 < fikabot> 💬 Oh, I guess clicking the forum sent it a private message. 15:38 < fikabot> 💬 Jeez, getting my ham license was easier than this. 😛 15:39 < fikabot> 💬 If that's what's going on here, I guess it's good that I know that now after only, what, 3-4 posts? Ugh. 15:41 < fikabot> 💬 OK, I'm legit stepping away from this for now. 🙂 Seriously, thanks for all the help. I don't want to seem like that crazy guy going off in some chatroom because the volunteer-run project isn't up to his standards. I do hope this gets a bit easier to use, and I do like the project and lots of parts of the interface. Just, too many papercuts. --- Log closed sáb feb 26 00:00:40 2022